1. The Silent Dissenter
2. Greed N Mercy
3. Snapshot
4. The Niggers Will Eliminate Themselves
5. God Is White
6. Child In Armour
7. Playing With Fire
8. Checks & Balances
9. Meanwhile South Of The Border
10. Black Boy
11. Sœur/Putain
12. The Final Solution (I Hated Myself And Wanted To Die)
13. The Tyrant
14. Seeks Asylum

Has anyone been watching that ‘Breaking Point’ series on MTV? You know- the Pop Idol for rockers? Well, I have (I have no life), and on there, I heard them say something along the lines of “…the only way to get ahead as a band is to get label backing.” Bullshit.

There’s a little known concept in these days of apathy and laziness known as DIY - if you want to put out an album - do it… yourself!!! If you need a label, set up your own! You don’t need a prime time TV tie–in show, forcing your product down the public’s throat. And this album is a perfect example of that DIY ethic. Djevara released this, their debut proper after seven demos, on their own Genin label, with money invested by friends and fans, who have faith because these guys are committed (when a portion of each CD sale to various charities, you get the impression it’s not about the fame or money).

And it’s a great investment. The songs are quicker and more urgent, and the sound quality is sharper, meaning the drums and bass, which once sounded a bit muffled, now sound bastard massive. Even the cymbals sound like someone pounding sheet metal into shape. Check ‘Snapshot’ and the title track for proof. Oh, and the final track, ‘Seeks Asylum’, with its two false endings.

The lazy comparison to make is that of a punkier Rage Against The Machine, but that’s no bad thing in my opinion since it’s only an influence, rather than a blatant rip-off. The songs range from fiercely politicised rants (“sit back and watch us die on primetime TV” on ‘The Niggers Will Eliminate Themselves’) to more simplistic dancefloor/moshpit fillers (‘Meanwhile South Of The Border’, and ‘Checks and Balances’), without ever losing steam. Even ‘The Tyrant’, which I previously thought was a bit long has had extra lyrics added to the stop-start ending to keep it interesting (“Come on motherfucker, call a spade a spade” – well, what were you expecting? “Ooh, baby, baby, I love you so much” or something equally banal?).

In fact, the only fault I can find with this album is with the accompanying booklet- there’s a transcript of Shaka Sankofa’s last words, from just before he was executed (in Texas- guess who was Governor at the time?). Whilst I have no qualms about the content (come on, Dubya’s a c*** - we all know it), the printing makes it near impossible to read. Still I suppose it makes you concentrate on the words. 

Even though this CD seems to have been recorded live (how else are they going to explain away the horrible, horrible feedback on the first track?), it's a strong, well-balanced mix, and there are few (if any) mistakes. Although, when you're playing good old-fashioned, bluesy, ballsy, rock and roll, the occasional dropped note doesn't really matter. It just adds to the whiskey soaked charm. The whiskey could also explain the memory loss - Repeating every line twice is OK when you do it in one song, but in two songs it becomes a bit grating, and suggests a lack of inspiration.

Trash shows they do have some good ideas though. The start isn't very retro - more unorthodox, with the guitar randomly but gradually taking over from the bass drum. Once it gets going though, you'll just start banging your head to the rhythm and air guitaring to the third solo in as many tracks.

The trick, it seems, is perseverance. If they do, I reckon they'll go far.

Voice seems to be a warm-up track, and isn't so much verse, chorus, verse, chorus - more like melodic chorus, nu-metal chorus, melodic chorus, nu-metal chorus. It's kind of cool though, with vocals reminiscent of Ian Watkins and Karl Middleton. Fortunately, both Kid and Better Times have verses, although Kid's laidback dub guitars for the verse don't go quite as well with the nu-metal tale of abuse being told as the heavier chorus does. Overall, Better Times is the best (and so really should have been put first in my opinion) -there's some ska, a bit of reggae, and I was sure I heard a Hammond organ.

On the whole, this lot show promise. They just need to mesh their influences a bit better, rather than just switching between styles whenever they need to, and realise that you can do a bit more with choruses than repeating the same line 5 or 6 times.

Actually, on more than one occasion, I closed my eyes and could see Noel Gallagher playing lead guitar. The lyrics tell a good story though - divorce is the start of a slippery slope to prostitution, via glamour modelling, apparently. I'm not quite sure if I believe that, but then I didn't believe Liam could walk faster than a cannonball either, and I still enjoyed the tune.

GR: Quick and easy stuff first. Favourite cheese? (© Gonzo and Zane Lowe)
Bass: Uh...probably feta, though I'm not really a big cheese fan.

GR: Fantasy festival line-up? (5 bands, dead people and reformations permitted)
Bass: Tool, Rage Against The Machine, Therapy?, Kyuss, Nirvana. I'm finding it hard not to justify Soundgarden actually - I may have to leave Therapy? (only because it’s fantasy).

GR: Plus then you could have Audioslave play a secret set in the car park during Kyuss.
Bass: Oh yeah!

GR: Recommend a website.
Bass: www.amnesty.org (That's Amnesty International's website). If it was still around I probably would have said "AskJesus.com" because that was hilarious.

GR: Have you seen Jesus dress-up?
Bass: Er... no?

GR: If I can find the link I’ll show you (www.jesusdressup.com if anyone cares). What’s in your CD player at the moment?
Bass: Nine Inch Nails - And All That Could Have Been (LIVE) (disc 1)

GR: OK, Chevy Chase or Bill Murray?
Bass: Bill

GR: Bill Hicks or Eddie Izzard?
Bass: Ooh. Shit...that's hard. I have to say Eddie at the moment (because I have heard a lot more than Hicks).

GR: Elvis or the Beatles?
Bass: Beatles

GR: Mark Thomas or Michael Moore?
Bass: Michael Moore

GR: Controversial. Chinese or Indian?
Bass: Chinese

GR: OK, longer stuff now. You better appreciate these- I wasted a good few hours at work thinking them up. How many different things are you involved in (O&B, Genin...)?
Bass: HAHA! Hmmm- Djevara, Orange & Blue Promotions, and Genin are my babies, but I'm also helping out with Subba Cultcha ( www.subba-cultcha.com ) Of course, my twin brother is also in a band called The Sour Grape Project, which I have to stand in for sometimes when he can't be arsed.

GR: Oh yeah, I caught the set at Rootes Radical at Warwick University. (They do a great cover of “Killing in the Name” if you’re interested. Djevara that is. I mean when they’re the Sour Grape Project. Which they’re not really. Oh, forget it)
Bass: Thanks for the review by the way. You'll be pleased to know we got the 1st 100 booklets reprinted - at great cost - and they are sitting here ready to be sent out - aren't we dedicated to our fans?

GR: HAHA! OK, should probably ask, what happened to releasing the album on Copro / Casket Music?
Bass: Hmmm. Well, to cut a long story short, in the end we felt we outgrew the offer- Basically, we got to the point where we thought "Well, we've got the capital and I've the experience and determination... Why give away our product?" There were some other differences - issues about producers and style that made us think twice about that offer. (To clarify- the deal we were offered was a self-finance deal through Casket, with possibility of being considered for bigger deal with Copro later). For one thing, they were very keen for us to use their studios and their recommended producers... who are all very good at what they do, but we didn't think were right for us…

GR: ...So you thought why not just self finance ourselves?
Bass: Yes, exactly... if we were paying for everything anyway, what was the point of giving it away? Of course, it was more complex because you have to get your own distro and PR it yourselves... but actually we thought we might have an advantage there too in some ways. We didn't want to sound exactly like their stable of nu-metal acts - cold, clean, clinical ... but identical.

GR: Good old cookie cutter acts- so much easier to market. In that case, what do you think of the “Breaking Point” series on MTV?
Bass: I've never seen it! To be honest, I watch very little TV apart from the news, some documentaries and some comedies.

GR: I don’t recommend it. Its... soul-destroying, to see that even in the so-called alternative genre it’s still about looks (when the fucking Portobella single "Covered in Punk" comes out, you'll understand).
Bass: To be honest, it's always been a fallacy that "alternative" can be "mainstream". The only surprise is that people don't realise this much is obvious.

GR: Still on the subject of labels, are the charity donations going to be something for all Genin releases?
Bass: That’s a good question...I would probably say, "not directly". Genin operates very much like a co-op, so the bands mostly own their own records, etc. Djevara is kind of a special case in some ways because we officially "own" the label. But even in the case of our own record the charity contributions come from Djevara's portion of income, not that which belongs to fans/supporters who invested in it, so this was a decision by Djevara because it is consistent with what Djevara is about. Almost all income from the other releases goes direct to the bands, and any that Genin gets is mostly for admin and costs. Having said that, it is consistent with our ideals to put money aside for further contributions. Phew - maybe an overlong answer! Does that make sense?

GR: Just about. Quick one whilst I think about it- is the new website ever going to go up?
Bass: HAHA! I'd like to know the answer to that myself! Best is to email our web-site designer and ask him!

GR: Onto the music I suppose- first, do women play bass better than men?
Bass: HAHAHA! Well, I can't make a general statement, but Kiara certainly gives a lot of her male counterparts a run for their money. What I WILL say though is that rock music is far too stale- male, middle-class, European... I think it is refreshing to be able to play in a band with some different characteristics - a feminine touch is definitely welcome, and quite intriguing.

GR: Surely that’s male, middle-class, AMERICAN...
Bass: I was thinking about that...I probably meant "white" 'because even American may imply all sorts of people who are not really represented in the rock scene.

GR: Do you think there's too much emphasis on across the pond, rather than homegrown talent? (evidence - Download, probably about 75% American bands)
Bass: To some extent... but I also think that the argument is skewed. People tend to forget that- 1) America is much bigger (population), 2) America has a much, much larger percentage audience for rock music and hence promotional/development budgets are much bigger, 3) Even these bands are a small fraction of the total number of American bands. I think it all makes sense when you look at the numbers, BUT- I do think we have to take a lot of the blame ourselves; there is very little investment and interest in emerging heavy rock acts in the UK. The perspective that sees rock as "exclusively kid's music" has been very destructive"... I think this encourages short-term marketing and stuff.

GR: Perhaps not- with any luck, these kids will grow up and take over America.
Bass: Well, that's what we hoped about the post-war generation and the hippies (who are now in charge). Anyway, I think the "kid's music" idea is British. Awful rock acts like Nickelback and Staind have huge followings in the states.

GR: And over here unfortunately.

Off on a tangent for a bit there. Now where was I? Oh yeah... Since music journalists are lazy, there's always a need to compare and pigeonhole, and you always seem to get a few RATM comparisons. Do you find these detrimental, since people might think "its been done before", or flattering?
Bass: Both, in some ways...Obviously it is an influence and so it can help new people to find the band, etc, but it has also been harmful. I think there's been an exaggeration- we have many more influences and actually musically we don't usually sound much like RATM, but the big caricature elements of similarity are there so comparisons are inevitable (multi-cultural political rock band, cross-over rock, vocal similarities, etc). I've become philosophical, I don't thing one should be arrogant- it's only a debut album from a young band, and maybe as main songwriter I've been guilty of over-influence. It's quite interesting that when Djevara first started we got more Nirvana/Offspring comparisons but as we took in more influences lazy journos have felt forced to take the easy "catch-all" of RATM. Since everybody says it, there must be something in it I guess *sigh*

GR: Maybe RATM were also influenced by loads of bands and styles, so comparisons to them are easy?
Bass: Yes, definitely. To be honest, I think one problem is that very few bands sound like RATM, So if you do - it’s kind of really obvious. Compare it to a new Emo band... they sound like EVERYONE. Ironically, this can make them seem more original. There is a peculiarly British scepticism about bands that seem to sound too much like one particular popular band - BUSH are a good example, selling millions in the states but hated in the UK. In the end, my answer is that I write and play music which I like, which moves me, and if it happens to sound a lot like whoever, so be it!

GR: Any plans for new material? God Is White dealt pretty much with race and culture throughout. Any plans for ballads or instrumental prog rock epics?
Bass: HAHAHAA! Well, I do agree GIW had a very clear theme and sound, but I've no intention of repeating it... "GIW 2" is not going to happen ever. There are a lot of sides of Djevara that are also absent from that record for whatever reason, mostly the more "extreme" ends (overtly punk tracks like "Shivers" or metal like "PMS"). With the new line-up there seems to be more room for slightly more experimental, dark avenues to be explored.

GR: Do you ever worry that some fucktard (for want of a better word) is going to miss the irony in the title?
Bass: It's already happened loads.

GR: Any scary tales?
Bass: Claire Sturgess from Xfm refused to play the record because she would not support "nazi skinhead bands".

GR: Has she been told yet?
Bass: I dunno. Geoff regularly gets asked why he's in a racist band when he tells them the title. I have to "explain" it almost every gig to one or two worried people, wondering if their tenner is gonna end up in the coffers of the NF, BNP or whoever. I've been advised that commercially it was a bit of a suicide title, but, to be honest, that's my weakness - art before commercialism every time. Having said that, I nearly called it "Is God White?" instead, which may convey the meaning better. We were advised that tracks like "God Is White", "The Niggers Will Eliminate Themselves" and "The Final Solution" were unlikely to make the Radio 1 playlist!

GR: Who needs them anyway?
Bass: Quite.

GR: OK, last few. How's the online petition to get you guys to the Reading Festival going?
Bass: HAHA! I have no idea ... to be honest, it was started by an (over) enthusiastic fan. I don't really think it was ever anything realistic, but we gave him our blessing to go with it if he wanted. The only problem is - I'm sure people think we're the ones who organised it and so we look like dicks all over the net going "sign our petition!"
GR: Maybe in a few years?
Bass: If the band is still around, yeah, maybe. I don't really know how they choose these things... I think it is quite hard to get in the right circles, especially for people as viciously independent as ourselves.

GR: How long do you see this life of rockstar excess lasting, and what do you think you're going to do afterwards?

Bass: Answer to both is: dunno. The only thing I am sure of is this: as soon as it starts feeling false or parody, then I'm outta here. I try to put 100% in to every gig, and I expect my band to do the same - it's our music and our expression, and the only time I really feel free but if it ever loses that, then there'll be no point... and there's no way I can predict when that might be.

I always try to catch all of the support bands on a bill, even if I've never heard of them before. You never know- you might discover your new favourite band. So when I got to the Civic to find Jonah Matranga's onelinedrawing had already finished, I was a little pissed. No worries I thought, FFAF have put together a stellar line-up, so we've still got two bands to go.

BUT- when I later discover I also missed Jonah giving a little acoustic show at the back of the hall just before the headliners, AND an acapella performance in the courtyard when everyone was packing up to leave. excuse me one second..<muffled sound of this reviewer punching the wall>. much better.

There was no way I was going to miss Million Dead, however. Although they've only got one album and a few EPs to there name (just like FFAF- Coincidence?), Million Dead certainly aren't short of tunes. As well as album highlights like 'Pornography for Cowards' and 'Charlie and the propaganda myth machine', we get a few new songs ('Sasquatch', and the soon to be released 'I gave my eyes to Stevie Wonder') and the first guest appearance by Jonah, who joins in on an inspired cover of the Smiths' 'Girlfriend in a coma'. All in all- a faultless performance. Especially on set closer and personal favourite 'Breaking the back'. Although it's a bit scary seeing 15 year old mini-mosher fashion punks singing along to every word of it, but probably not understanding any of it.

They probably didn't understand The Haunted either, but that's because they're METAL!!! Oh, and they're Swedish. Apart from the instrumental 'Privation of Faith INC.' (not chosen as an opener- but rather HALFWAY THROUGH THE SET!), a new song called '99', and 'Godpuppet', I haven't got a f***ing clue what they were playing or saying. But damn it was good. The circle pits that broke out every few songs and the pained expression on my none-more-emo friend's face were proof enough.

It seems Funeral For A Friend decided they could splash out a bit, since they were obviously going up in the world (last time they were next door in the smaller Wulfrun Hall). Gone is the standard big-ass logo on the backdrop. In its place, we have a frenetic, almost epileptic stream of live video feeds and arty images. Which does nothing but piss me off for the entire set. Shame- good intentions, and all that.

This was the third time I'd seen them live (if you can count standing outside the tent at Reading last year), and I finally worked out why they're such a good live band. It's because they have so many songs that could be set closers- 'Juneau' (third song played- ballsy!), 'Bend your arms to look like wings', and even the acoustic 'Your revolution is a joke', which was being given its first live airing on this tour. They all seem to reach a crescendo that gives you this feeling of . sorry, this is getting a bit silly. Look, they're just good! Trust me on this.

'Novella' actually turns out to be the set closer, as it was last time- with its stretched out ending, it's the obvious choice, allowing for the band to quietly disappear one by one. Which is what they did last time, leaving without an encore. But this time, they make up for it. It's an encore for the fans (read- 'obsessives'), giving us 'This year's most open heartbreak', and 'The art of American football' (both from their first two EPs). Can you guess what the other song was? Do I actually have to tell you they didn't pass up a golden opportunity to do their now obligatory cover of 'The System' with their hero, the guy who wrote it? No? Good.

In that case I'll just be off to buy 'Water & Solutions'

Whilst Johnny Truant fail to materialise as one of the promised support acts, Eden Maine show just why they’re on the bill. The guitar line to set opener ‘The Hunter & the Hunted’ starts slow and pretty, drawing comparisons to Isis, but once the double bass drum kicks in it’s more like Converge are on stage. Frontman Adam stops doing his Cedric Bixler impression, accurate though it is (tight clothes & handclaps, always a winner), ands starts trying to separate his head from his neck with some ludicrous headbanging. And that’s how it continues. Looking at the lyrics afterwards, it’s complex (read 'weird') stuff, in the vein of Frank Turner & Keith Buckley, but live, it’s pretty much the sound of a man indulging in primal scream therapy. I 'd tell you what else they played, but I haven't a clue. It was bloody good though.

DEP’s lyrics are just as obtuse, but the dedicated (read 'near rabid') crowd are able to scream it all back at the wall in front of them (or Greg as his mother calls him), from 'Panasonic Youth' which opens, all the way through to 'Sunshine the Werewolf' at the close. He may have initially expressed concern about taking over as frontman, but he knows it's his stage now. Stomping about looking like the scariest geology teacher in the world with his tour beard, tracks like '43% Burnt' & 'Sugar Coated Sour' are now indelibly his. Having said that, Ben Weinman still shows his presence, literally bouncing off the walls whilst still managing to keep up with the constantly shifting time signatures. The rest of them just seem to be content to be there, but that's plenty when you've got this extreme noise to back you up.

At an hour long, with no peaks and lows- just a constant barrage, it does get a bit tiring. We really could have done with a quick break, and 'Unretrofied' would have made an interesting opener to an encore. Apart from that single minor gripe, it's all good. They play everything you'd expect ('When good dogs do bad things', 'Baby's first Coffin', 'Setting fire to sleeping Giants'), and everyone goes home happy (read 'exhausted & deaf').

As such, you have to feel a bit sorry for openers Brigade, even with Charlie's older brother as frontman (which confused the hell out of me when I missed the first song or two - thought for a moment we were going to be in for a very short evening). Thankfully, they manage to acquit themselves well, being both heavy enough to bring visions of Queens Of The Stone Age, but with the occasional hint of Placebo's swagger, meaning there's something for everyone. And with pretty much everyone here, they manage to get quite a few cheers of their own by the end of the set.

Let's make this perfectly clear - Fightstar are not Busted. Busted were slick, simple, choreographed (allegedly, says my lawyer), mainstream. Fightstar - hmm, not so much. Indie to the point of turning up with a broken amp, broken microphone, and no drumsticks, this is a grassroots launch. You also can't accuse them of just being Charlie and friends, since Dan on bass takes centre stage (think Colin Doran, only shorter), and vocals are shared between Charlie (who's voice actually has some bite to it - who knew?) and fellow axeman Alex.

The oft used Biffy Clyro comparison certainly holds true, with relatively quiet passages giving way to sudden slabs of noise and big choruses. Other lazy reference points include Taking Back Sunday, and the quieter bits of Finch, so it's a veritable post-hardcore jamboree, but at this early stage there doesn't seem to be anything to separate them from the pack (aside from the obvious). The songs sound good once they get going (not counting spontaneous bass/drum jams caused by initial equipment breakdowns), but the banter in between doesn't exactly exude confidence. Put it down to nerves - understandable given the situation.
Thankfully, Fightstar will be back in a few weeks supporting yourcodenameis:milo, so I suppose we can try again then. See you down the front this time.

As for Snow Capped Sunday, I don’t know if the name is a 36 Crazyfists reference, but it’d be very apt if they were. The tunes are heavier, more metallic, but you can tell from their appearance (polo t-shirts, fancy haircuts, and a flatcap-wearing street urchin) they’re still aiming for post-hardcore. Apart from the singer that is- demeanour of Morrissey, vocals of Sully Erna, dress sense of a goth raver in Hot Topic. Confused? I was.

The hype’s died down a bit (only a bit though- most eyes and ALL cameras are still on Charlie), so we can judge Fightstar a bit more objectively than in previous weeks. And I have to say that the judgement is fair. Drummer Omar is excellent, providing solid, intricate beats throughout, and Charlie is coming out of his shell, indulging in what is evidently some well-needed scream therapy.
The pretty faithful cover of NIN’s ‘Hurt’ shows they can do stripped down emo laments (though I suppose it’s not hard when you consider the source material), whilst 'Palahniuk’s Laughter' (originally titled ‘swimming the flood’ before Boxing Day) is admirably rocking. I couldn’t catch the last song’s title (my friend suggested ‘Busted has left my heart empty, and I can only fill the void with screamo (however my bank balance is quite healthy)’ though I doubt it), but it shows off the band’s knack for pretty vocal harmonies, and their love of big crunchy riffing. We all know they're going to be huge, but based on tonight's show, they might just deserve to be.

Why the place empties between Fightstar and yourcodenameis:milo I have no idea- probably past most of their bedtimes. The other thing I can’t decide is whether the band hates the drummer, or the drummer hates the rest of the band because the polyrhythms and time changes are never ending. "Lets all try to bounce together through this one. Deal?" asks frontman Paul at one point. Um, no. To be honest, the chances of us managing that are smaller than, well, you (and he is tiny).

Opening with the title track of their new EP ‘Rapt Dept’, and finishing with fan favourite 'Schteeve', we get pretty much every song they’ve released so far in between (best title- 'TV is better than real life'), as well as new song ‘Seventeen’ which is just as raw and awkward as its predecessors. 'All roads to fault' gets one of the best responses, especially the ‘go very quite and delicate, then build up speed and volume until we’re chugging along nicely and you can actually headbang for a bit, then stop dead’ ending- annoying as hell, but so cool. Basically, if you went home early, your codename is: moron.

Having said that, I've never heard of the opening band, The Maker, so about them, I can be critical and objective. Well, at least about the song and a half I managed to catch. Competent indie-rock, a bit reminiscent of The Music (though that may just have been the frontman's hair), but nothing spectacular is all I can really say. Ultimately, they lacked presence and energy, but I'd hope its just teething troubles. Give them a bit of time, and they'll be just fine.

I don't think you could ever accuse Skism of lacking energy (and yes, throughout this review I shall call them by their true name. They should never have changed it). If someone was watching them for the first time at this gig, you could forgive them for thinking they were acting up for the photographer down front. But no- they gurn those faces, wear those outfits, thrash and bounce around, and trash that same cymbal at pretty much every gig. They also normally play "The man who could hold two biscuits in one hand" (Best! Title! Ever!), but not tonight. Shame, but we still get the surreal lyrics of "I'm on fire", and the huge riffage of "Faces". Plus, off the new 'Anger' EP, the sort of calypso-ey, dubb-ey "Follow me", guaranteed to make you bob your head if nothing else, as you grin like a loon at the rest of the performance.

Then, the main event - for some at least. Around this time last year, Djevara played their 100th gig in front of at least 200 people in this very Students union. Why there's only about a third of that number here tonight I'll never know. Probably all sitting at home, watching Holby City. Oh well, their loss.

Unfortunately, due to a cascade of technical problems, it very nearly turns out to be everyone's loss. Opening with the racist-baiting title track of their debut album, "God Is White", you think it's going to be great. But then Bass's microphone cuts out, and the best song in their repertoire is robbed of half its power (the other half being the furious double bass drumming, which fortunately didn't fault once, as far as I could tell). On the next song, we lose the bass (the instrument this time), and later, it's the backing vocals. But these guys (or rather now, guys and girl, lets make sure we're being P.C. about this) are nothing if not determined, so they battle through. As Bass says, the next song, "Shivers", is a punk song, and a good one at that, so who needs the bass?

It takes a storming rendition of "South of the border" halfway through for everyone, including the crowd, to really get going, but from then on, there's no looking back. "Seeks asylum", "Playing with fire", and with oldie "PMS" to close, you realise this is how it should have been all the way through. Vitriolic lyrics, sturdy bass-lines, tight guitars, thunderous drums- when they hit their stride, Djevara have it all. Why don't you go find out for yourself? Christ knows, more people should!